Dail question 14 October 1997

Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the steps, if any, which have been taken in his Department to protect its information systems against the millennium bug; the cost of such measures; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

The Taoiseach: A working group has been set up within the Department to examine and assess information systems in relation to the year 2000 problem, that is, the millennium bug. Estimated costs of £20,000 for work necessary to ensure year 2000 compliance of the Department's information systems have been identified. Replacement and upgrade work will commence in 1998.

Mr. J. Bruton: Is the Taoiseach aware the problem regarding chips inserted in computers prior to 1996 could pose a major problem for the health services in terms of the operation of hospitals and for business in terms of its suppliers, customers and maintenance of business? Is he aware the ESB has estimated the cost of making the necessary adjustments could be in the region of £ 10 million? If this is not properly planned for, the total cost to the Irish economy could run to £1 billion. What action is the Taoiseach taking as head of Government to ensure there is proper planning to deal with this matter?

The Taoiseach: That computers in private industry, as well as those in the State sector, are not capable of coping with the millennium change has been highlighted for some time. A number of groups are working to deal with this problem and in my Department this will be catered for by the change of equipment in 1998-99. There is no great difficulty from a cost point of view.

A working group has been dealing with this problem across Government Departments for a considerable time. We have looked at the cost factors and apart from changes in information technology, equipment and systems, there will be an additional estimated cost of about £ 12.6 million to ensure that all computers, particularly in the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Social Welfare, and the area of payments in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, are accounted for.

An information group was recently set up to deal with this issue across Departments, including all management and IT unit systems already in operation. People have also been recruited from the private sector to assist in this and advice has been sought from outside agencies. This group will report to the Government on a quarterly basis, so computers across all Government services should be accounted for well in advance of 1999. The Deputy is correct in saying there is a cost factor, but this is necessary so the administration of information technology is compatible with the year 2000.

Mr. J. Bruton: Is the Taoiseach aware the cost of dealing with the problem is escalating? As we come closer to the date in question, more firms worldwide are beginning to realise they have to get outside help. If early action is taken, the problem can be dealt with at a relatively modest cost but if an organisation leaves it until 1999 it may have to pay astronomical consultancy fees to sort out the problem at that late stage. It is important that all Irish Government services take early action on this matter.

Is the Taoiseach aware that health boards who want to act on this are unable to do so in some cases because the Department of Health has not given them the necessary instructions? Does he agree it is his responsibility to ensure all Ministers recognise this is a genuine problem and not a fanciful matter? It needs to be prioritised by Ministers and particularly by the Department of Health.

The Taoiseach: In fairness to Government Departments, a working group was set up two years ago to deal with this matter. Since early 1996, all agencies and sections of the civil service and semi-State bodies have been involved in changing equipment and revising systems - using outside agencies where necessary. 1 was concerned that in some areas the process was not advancing quickly enough and it was brought to my attention that some areas would not be able to make the changes in advance of 1999 at that rate of action. The matter should not be left to the last few months.

Apart from the interdepartmental group and the various sections dealing with office equipment, IT systems and management systems, a group has been set up comprising the Departments, their agencies and outside agencies to deal with the issue. The Deputy is correct that there is a shortage of people with the technical qualifications needed to address some of the difficulties, people who had worked with the old COBOL systems. However, I am happy that Departments will be ready for the changes well in advance of the period.

Proinsias De Rossa: There is little more than two years left before this problem will arise because the systems must be operational by 1 January 2000. Will the Taoiseach indicate the point at which he expects decisions will be made for the expenditure of the moneys needed to replace equipment? What timescale does he foresee for the implementation of the changes necessary? On what is the £12.5 million estimated cost to Departments based? It seems very low when one considers the systems of the Departments of Health and Children and Social, Community and Family Affairs alone. Some of the systems in the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs are already out of date.

The Taoiseach: The £12.6 million is additional to the change of equipment. The change of equipment began in 1996 and will continue to 1999. The purchasing of the new equipment has eliminated the problem in many cases. Not all the systems faced the problem of not being able to handle the millennium change. There is extensive hardware and software work ongoing in all areas. As I said, we are endeavouring to make sure that as much work as possible is done before 1999. The outside expertise we have sought is a reflection that the private sector has been dealing with this matter for a number of years and those involved may help us to speed up the process so that arrangements may be in place by 1999.

Mr. J. Bruton: Is the Taoiseach aware that the majority of organisations in the private sector are behind in preparing for this change and that looking to them to rescue the Government will not yield results? Is he also aware that this change will be made at the same time as these organisations will be converting to the euro? The extra burden of dealing with the millennium problem and the euro together could lead to breakdowns in a number of firms with major legal liability costs. It will not simply entail the cost of remedying defects, but if defects occur and there are failures resulting there will be substantial legal liability on organisations including, for example, health boards and hospitals which may fail to call people for appointments if the computers are not working properly. Is the Taoiseach aware that a number of people in the US have been called out of retirement at salaries twice that of the Taoiseach to deal with this matter? This is the scale of costs faced by organisations, costs for which we are not yet ready and which will increase if we do not act promptly.

The Taoiseach: I will be guilty of repetition. The Government does not need to be rescued on this issue.